I just ran over the thread and intend to give my opinion on every topic I remember but first I really have to excuse myself if I make any grammatical mistakes, I took my Cambridge First Certificate this month but I'm not attending any English classes at school (my major is biology / chemistry) and so I don't have much practice in writing.
I lovelovelove Charlie McDonnell (Charlieissocoollike), his clip about the Doppler effect literally saved my physics grades this year - I never understood this stuff untill I saw his video and this got me through my last physics exam
I've been currently reading my first 'real' book in English, it was 'The Fault In Our Stars' by John Green - have you guys ever heard of him? He's awesome and his books are truly amazing.
Oh, I gotta go now, dinner's ready, but I will surely be back in this awesome thread (Can you really say 'surely'? Have to look that up haha)
Zitat I lovelovelove Charlie McDonnell (Charlieissocoollike), his clip about the Doppler effect literally saved my physics grades this year - I never understood this stuff untill I saw his video and this got me through my last physics exam
Funny that you mention him right now, I discovered his videos some days ago and I've been watching them for... quite a long time this weekend. His fun science videos are really cool, although I haven't seen the one about the doppler effect yet, maybe I should do so. (And, although this might sound like if I were an obsessed fangirl, which I am hopefully not, he has the most adorable smile ever)
Yay, more people! More! Welcome, Carmenzita, to our awesome conversation!
I've heard a lot of very flattering comments on John Green but haven't read any of his books. Right now I'm reading the first Bartimaeus book (by Jonathan Stroud), not for the first time, but this time in English and I'm very impressed indeed. The vocabulary used is on a much higher level than I'd expected (or does he only use peculiar expressions to create some ironically antique atmosphere?), I needed a few pages to accustom to that. As there are by far enough pages in this book, it's ok by now & I love reading it so much. Another book I found challenging to read (or: a lot more challenging) was Jonathan S. Foer's "Everything is illuminated". I'm pretty sure that I didn't get everything in there? Should try it again this summer, just to find out if a made any progress and because it's perfect.
Aaand, series again. I started season 2 of True Blood now! Orr, oh, I get to like it a lot, as there are a few great characters, but it starts being a bit too sad and disturbing? You already know that whatever happens, some monster will appear and kill or almost kill someone. Do any of you watch it? (GOD NO! I needed to look up Maryann, because atm she's one of the most fascinating characters for me, and Wikipedia spoilered me SO badly Never, ever again will I be able to enjoy S02 as much as I did up to now! Orr ey. -.- ) Also, I like Tara a lot.
Yay, another Charlieissocoollike fan! I love his videos, and his friend Alex Day is awesome too!
John Green! He's awesome! I still have to read some books of him, but I started with Looking for Alaska, loved it, got to An Abundance of Katherines and of course The Fault in our Stars. Fantastic books <3 You know he has a youtube channel which he shares with his brother Hank, right? For those who don't know him, I recommend it wholeheartedly (Vlogbrothers). They run some parallel channels, too - Hank has Scishow, where he explains science stuff and science news and so forth, John has one where he teaches World History (I still gotta watch that one, though, I'm not that interested in history as I am in science xD)
Zitat von StelmariaYay, another Charlieissocoollike fan! I love his videos, and his friend Alex Day is awesome too!
John Green! He's awesome! I still have to read some books of him, but I started with Looking for Alaska, loved it, got to An Abundance of Katherines and of course The Fault in our Stars. Fantastic books <3 You know he has a youtube channel which he shares with his brother Hank, right? For those who don't know him, I recommend it wholeheartedly (Vlogbrothers). They run some parallel channels, too - Hank has Scishow, where he explains science stuff and science news and so forth, John has one where he teaches World History (I still gotta watch that one, though, I'm not that interested in history as I am in science xD)
I've started with 'An Abundance of Katherines', then I read 'Paper Towns' and afterwards 'Looking for Alaska'. I read all of them in German, I'm usually too lazy to read books in English but a friend of mine bought 'The Fault in Our Stars' and I just couldn't wait for the German translation so I read it. His books have this unbelievably strong atmosphere and the characters seem so real, like I wouldn't be surprised if I met them in the supermarket or something. They don't appear - to me -like a fictional construction (as most of fictional people do), they seem to exist, if you get my point.
These books are just magic.
Ya, I knew about the YT-Account, they call themselves nerdfighters right? Or is that something different? I always wanted to watch their videos but I didn't really have time in the last weeks...
I love watching English series, too. Especially 'skins', does anybody know this?`The characters are quite f*cked up and I learned swearing a lot by watching the series, but yet it has a wonderful philosophy in it sometimes.
There I was, intending to write something in here again and perhaps to hold a small, comfortable monologue, but then!, new people! Hullo, new people! (And hullo, old people!) But, alas!, now I shall cease to write as I don't have anything to say about series or John Green... (Sad, isn't it. But this will never do. I will burble on anyway.) And I actually also stopped watching charlieissocoollikevideos...dunno, either he is getting worse and worse or my enthusiasm has just faded off? He is not really funny anymore- and then, I think the whole success has made him quite vain (very naturally so) and somehow ungenuine - or is it ingenuine? does this word exist? - and he's always like "yeah, you know, I don't make so many videos anymore, but as you know, I'm such a perfectionist and I rate quality so much more than quantity, blablablabla". The videos are mostly uncreative (the newest is okay) and even less entertaining and he is always waving frantically with his hands and his arms and making grimaces. Ah!, and you know, what really made me stop was that "Fun Science-Randomness" video where he was selling it off as an insight!, as a realization!, that the chance that a flipped coin comes out either heads or tail ALWAYS stays the same, wooha! Surprise, surprise. Luckily that's not any sort of the most basic knowledge of stochastics or anything of the kind. (And then the "I've never understood probability till you've explained it!!!"-comments and of course the usual MARRY ME! NOW!, You're soo cute! <3 and blabla. ) Yes. I do love to rant and rave. Soo much fun. (Don't take me seriously anyway, I like to exaggerate my complaints excessively.)
Which reminds me of something. Have you people watched this terrible video fom some EU campaign to promote scientific careers to girls or young women? Science: It's a Girl thing Of course, they're quite right. Any girl's main motivation to do science has to be, well, to get the chance to dance seductively for this handsome researcher, to see all those beautiful colours and special effects when you do things in this fancy laboratory and to OH MY GOSH MAKE THEIR OWN MAKE UP! Also, the H for hydrogen looks just so much like some designer clothes bran, one has to love it.
Ad "the handsome researcher" or rather his visual relation to the girls, see FAQ: What is the ?male gaze?? on Feminism 101. So very empowering, this video, isn't it? Gnah.
Uh, there's so many rubbish around...(so that's what the European Commission does? Ah well.) Which in turn reminds me of this thing called "Girls Day" (this very name alone is stupid), to bring scientific and generally male-dominated jobs home to girls. It's not a that bad idea in itself, but... well, I remember that most of my fellow students either just went to their parents' workplaces because they could think of nothing else or just forged some letter of excuse fo the teacher to take a day off. (Ah, though, I'm not the best example myself, I went to a rest home with two friends of mine, ehem. It was one of the most boring days I've ever experienced, which may be partly due to the fact that we were only sixth-graders then and were not allowed to do anything at all. (How do you say "Sechstklässler"? Sixth-grader doesn't sound altogether right, somehow.)) Well, such you-know-girls-science-isn't-that-bad-campaign-thingys just aren't any use as long as there are so many prejudices and clichées around, isn't it. (I can't tell why, but I do slightly dislike the term "girls".)
Perhaps it is about time to bring this thread back into life and kick it off with a new topic. Since all of you people seem to master this language like a native would, I see no big deal or difference to any other thread where I do my best not to annoy you with my lack of true proficiency in German...
It happened more than once that I came across a subliminal anti-americanism or slight contempt of the so called "American Dream". Now I am sure that some of you have much more knowledge about such matters, so I don't even want to start a discussion on the foreign policy of the United States. But what I dare to ask is what you personally would refer to as the American Dream. I am well aware that this is a rather controversial topic, but as European individuals I am hopeful that you will bring up a whole bunch of highly interesting views that might oppose the self image of many Americans. Is it positive, is it negative? And in case you have already had the chance to go see life in the States for yourself, would you think that your prior assumptions were much like what you actually experienced?
Being watched by a native makes me feel a bit anxious, but I'll try to answer your question anyway Also, it's only fair to be in this position for once. (By the way: Your German improved a lot from when you joined us and I'd guess it's probably on a similar level to our English.)
This is a topic I know near to nothing about, and I've never been to the US, so I'd see my conception of this as a? slightly old-fashioned European idea and about the thing you'd expect to learn at school, from overly dramatic English teachers and history teachers who's favourite topic is the Habsburg empire. The concept I got to know as the "American Dream" is the idea of almost absolute freedom to become whatever a person wants to be, under the condition that they're willing to work hard for it (and with that being the only real limit). It's a fantasy of a highly individualized society only bound by the laws of economy (wich regulates itself), and with personal property and, ultimately, happiness, as a central motivation. (A house, a certain kind of family, money.) In this concept, everybody can work for their dream and achive it if they only work hard enough, so when someone fails, it is clear that this is their own fault. Now, I won't even try to set this into relation with any reality whatsoever (;
The other thing, anti-americanism. I think the American Dream is seen as a positive thing by many people here, some might even believe in the power of whatever I described above. Somewhere I read it's thought to be the main reason for a change in the design of european living rooms towards the type that people saw in american sitcoms. Still, anti-americanism is present everywhere. Anti-american views tend to include (&generalise) the subjects of surveillance, violence, gun laws, fast food (usually commented on with a lot of fat shaming), the pursuit of standardized beauty, shallowness, religious fundamentalism, nationalism, ? Well, I could go on, but I just remembered one thing that might be interesting: There's this idea of "globalisation" as the process in which the US silently achive world domination. (It wasn't before I took a semester of cultural anthropology that I found out this isn't actually the case, so yeah, probably most people believe it.) So, most purely negative opinions about the United States seem to come down too: They're too big, too shallow, too extreme and overconfident. (And it's so nice and cosy here in Europe, nobody would ever want to leave that anyway.) Oh, and then there's criticism on health care and warfare, but to me, those don't seem to dominate anti-american discourse.
Also, a fascinating point is that both right-wing extremist and anti-fascist positions tend to be rather anti-american (on a level that goes beyond serious criticism).
Why blubbl, I have absolute faith in your mastery of my supposedly native tongue. The fact that I am still struggling with German is extremely humbling next to others whose language proficiency supersedes my own. The number of languages I took up on my way and failed to bring even close to perfection goes uncounted. But thank you for mentioning my progress, it means a lot to me, although you don't want to know the number of hours I already spent consulting online dictionaries 8)
Zitat They're too big, too shallow, too extreme and overconfident. (And it's so nice and cosy here in Europe, nobody would ever want to leave that anyway.)
Yes, that is almost exactly what I assumed it was. That surely represents the drawbacks of the dream. You want to have it, you want it bigger and better, you go get it, you find yourself still a tiny human but now surrounded by the shallow ruins of what you once believed in. It is in fact one of the highest living standards and for a nation almost entirely built upon liberty and salesmanship it undoubtedly can be seen as huge success. But I agree that this alone is not the key to being a superior nation. Blame my unusual upbringing Yet I am not the one to argue. Even though I am in the lucky position to possess the citizenship of the United States, I sometimes pride myself to be and act more European if any. (Though I don't know to which extent you would agree..) I am not the typical American in so many ways. Sometimes, the US annoys me quite as much and the so often so ignorant behaviour of Americans in other countriey makes me want to bury myself in embarrassment. But then again, I might be the textbook example of the American Dream myself. So I will just reminisce on my time moving to an living in the States.
Zitat the "American Dream" is the idea of almost absolute freedom to become whatever a person wants to be, under the condition that they're willing to work hard for it (and with that being the only real limit). It's a fantasy of a highly individualized society only bound by the laws of economy (wich regulates itself), and with personal property and, ultimately, happiness, as a central motivation. (A house, a certain kind of family, money.) In this concept, everybody can work for their dream and achive it if they only work hard enough, so when someone fails, it is clear that this is their own fault.
Becoming whatever you want to be under the condition of working hard. Yes, in all briefness this would be it. No matter how long ago the constitution was written, I think this main principle stays timeless. This is how this archetype of liberal nation survived and blossomed. The way I can relate to it, is an all too personal one. Upon growing up in a place like the Sri Lankan hillside, I came to the US a small bag full of expectations. I knew everything was going to be bigger and better but good Lord was I blown away. It was a complete cultural shock you could say. The supposedly greatest nation of the world with people who depend on corn syrup and car wash and flush down the toilet their drinking water? I honestly thought I would never fit in this system that you rightly call shallow. But soon I learnt another side of that liberal approach. That was when I was admitted to community middle school in a small town on the East coast. People welcome you in the States. And when they say so, they mean it (no offense to Austrians intended). It was a warm feeling of "We are glad to have you here. Now with our support make us proud". From what I experienced, everything is designed to help you to help yourself. I was offered extensive coaching and language classes in my first year in school, funded by the school and the community. That was where I met kids from all around the globe whose families, like mine, just recently had moved to the US. We all were united by the pursuit of a better life. It was people from all backgrounds with a similar dream, the American Dream. Most often it was hard working people who had to struggle with diverse hardships and finally were given the chance to prove themselves and be completely in charge of their own lifes. So for me, the American Dream has the power to unite, more than anything else. Even more than having a four-wheeler or a big mansion. It is only too true that in terms of health care and school tuitions I would rather be born in Europe, but I have yet to find another place where a society system is able to boost your self-confidence rather than turn you down. Besides that, the Dream can be seen through the ezes of a non-conformist just as well. You want to reside in your RV full time? Go ahead, do so. Of course, people not only live in RVs for the pleasure. The American Dream, as we agreed, is a shallow one. There are those who face exclusion from society for various reasons. However, I will return to that and other aspects in another post since it is close to midnight and a monday in school lies ahead of me ...
EDIT: Oh, by the way, I never intended to humiliate anybody's language skills. Please folks don't get humbled and write. There is nothing to be afraid of, you can not fail. I am not a spelling genius either and most definitely won't be upset by wrong grammar and incorrect use of words! And moreover, I love riddles
ZitatWell, I could go on, but I just remembered one thing that might be interesting: There's this idea of "globalisation" as the process in which the US silently achive world domination.
Yes, this fear (whether justified or not) seems to be very present in other parts of the world. Be it due to expoitation of resources, military interventions or simply the fact that after all the US is (wrong, was, now it is China if I remember rightly) the biggest economy on the planet and knows how to take advantage of it. But if it wasn't for an American intervention, wouldn't the World Wars have taken another turn in Europe? As usual, I don't know too much about historical facts, but sometimes I do wonder where this European antiamericanism derived from. Was it there before the 1940s or (in Austria and Germany) after the defeat in WW2? Or is it a more recent trend that developed over the course of the last decades? Like when it was George W. Bush's turn in power. I can still recall some rather awkward situation I witnessed whenever someone from other parts of the world (especially Europeans) found out about my American connection. Most of the less deranged in the States knew very well themselves, that this glorious "War on Terrorism" was nothing but a strong claim to control all Earth's economic and natural resources such as oil. So even back then, to have such a lunatic hyprocrite ruling over the lands was not so funny after all. And that of course with public utterances that hardly could have represented a majority's view. Often I don't think that Americans in general are utterly aware of the big role that they are playing and the impact that their decisions entail. It is surprising to see of what great significance even some minor lifestyle choices like the living room set in series can be. Considering that, I am hopeful for the big changes in thinking to follow soon, e.g. gay marriage. On the other hand, this leader position in setting global trends might be a hindering fact when it comes to learning from others. There is, at least to my experience, a great appreciation of Europe and it's culture in the States. Going to Europe or even have family there is definitely something to be proud of. Yet a lot of people don't want to "become like Europeans" in terms of giving up parts of their liberty. That is so for health care matters, the gun law and many more. There is of course a big gap in thinking among the States of the United States as well. Luckily I found myself in a Northern coastal State and not somewhere deep South in redneck territory. Yes somewhat schizo I guess...
ZitatAlso, a fascinating point is that both right-wing extremist and anti-fascist positions tend to be rather anti-american (on a level that goes beyond serious criticism).
But wouldn't a rightist love the general idea of a more liberal economy and society? Or is it, again, rooted in post-war consciousness?
And do you believe there is something like the "European Dream" as well, or perhaps some kind of unifying pride of cultural achievements whatsoever?
I'd like to pick up a topic we had on the first page, english accents. Are there any English accents you understand better than others? Are there some you have difficulties understanding? I have some native-speaking friends, one from Canada, one from New Zealand and one from New York City... I don't have any problems understanding the Canadian and the kiwi (although she uses some funny expressions I've never heard before, but what would you expect from someone who literally comes from the other end of the world?), but the guy from New York... Not only does he speak incredibly fast, his accent is nearly ununderstandable (imagine him saying "coffee" as you would say "Kwåååfii" while pinching your nose...)
In addition to that: Do you also feel that all your english skills are gone when talking with native speakers? Like, when you're with other non-native speakers everyrthing's fine, you're actually quite satisfied with how you talk, but when you're talking with someone who has English as their first language, you're suddenly using words like "sickdom"...
Totally does happen to me. Also with a belgian friend who studies in Glasgow? Her English didn't even get near immaculate in the last two years, but last time she visited there were times I just couldn't talk to her at all because I was so embarrassed of my poor English. (I know people always say to stop worrying and yes, I guess that's the key, but it's a lot like? telling new born kittens that fell into a river they should simply stop drowning? Or is that too drastic?)
Zitat von Holly Blue In addition to that: Do you also feel that all your english skills are gone when talking with native speakers? Like, when you're with other non-native speakers everyrthing's fine, you're actually quite satisfied with how you talk, but when you're talking with someone who has English as their first language, you're suddenly using words like "sickdom"...
I suppose (nearly) everybody feels that way. Though my way of coping is more like stop talking at all (which is actually my standard way of coping whenever I'm intimidated by someone who's doing something much, much better than I do - I just stop doing anything at all. Yeah. Really totally recommendable.)
ZitatI know people always say to stop worrying and yes, I guess that's the key, but it's a lot like? telling new born kittens that fell into a river they should simply stop drowning? Or is that too drastic?
I like that comparison. It's lovely.
Apropos "Do you also feel": Like many others I spend much of my internettime reading or watching stuff that's in english (and also some part of my offlinetime, too) and then it quite naturally happens that an english expression comes to mind when I'm really talking/writing in german and I'm looking for a good a word to describe what I mean and this english expression just fits perfectly...and I might really use it or I might not, for fear of sounding pretentious or whatever (because that is often what I think of other people when they use english phrases in german, and sometimes it's even the wrong context or the wrong pronounciation, and I'm snobbishly like "ugh, you're so pretentious" or "ugh, using a word incorrectly is really embarrassing"*). Do you also feel that way sometimes, afraid of sounding pretentious when you want to use an english expression in another language?
Not apropos anything: Yesterday I watched "The Breakfast Club" and I was kind of disappointed because it wasn't as good as I had expected, hearing quite a lot of people being all in raptures about it. But then - I don't know, it may be owing to the fact that there were just many parts of the dialogues that I didn't understand (literally: I had no idea what they were saying and which words they were using) and also owing to the fact that I didn't get some subtleties, languagewise, because I'm not a native speaker? Anyway, it's frustrating.
* though, to be honest - mostly it looks more like this in my head: "ugh, using a word incorectly is ambarassing for realz (ts you soo stupid)" (Because, you know, I am quite pretentious quite often. Oh, and intolerant.)
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24.06.2012 18:22
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Never, ever again will I be able to enjoy S02 as much as I did up to now! Orr ey. -.- )
I like that comparison. It's lovely.